I'm not so good with html. herrengedeck ( talk ) 12:53, (UTC) It sounds like a fairly fringe theory at the moment. It's not like a new archaeological discovery; the words of the torah have been known verbatim for thousands of years. This is just someone's specific interpretation of these words, which, i assume, have been interpreted many other ways in the past. This idea will need to gain academic acceptance before it ends up here. Serendi pod ous 13:09, (UTC) the torah has central significance to Christians edit "However, in both religions they lack the central significance that they have in Judaism." that's wrong. It is much more significant to Christians than to muslims (who Israel belongs to, the characteristics of the messiah, the inneracy of the word of God, even the existence of the jewish temples and their locations, show real love and respect to the jews). If the messiah of the torah (accepted by judaism) came tomorrow Jews would treat the torah the exact same way christian do now.
Torah, summary - learn and remember your, torah
The last approach yields reproducible star maps, 10 in number. Not nine, not twelve, not. Ten like truth ten Sephiroth. Note that those four approaches are not necessarily connected and can be applied independently. Three of them are introduced at length in the post linked below. Please go to ml I believe that this data should be part of the article. If you have a different opinion, please post it here. herrengedeck ( talk ) 12:29, (UTC) This seems like it's still fairly new. Needs to gestate a while and get commonly accepted before it gets included here. Serendi pod ous 12:32, (UTC) would you like to make a wikinews entry then?
Edit how is it that a wikipedia page about the torah begins it's description with the word Islam? It is totally outrageous an an example of the pervasiveness of Islamic disinformation. If I look up Jesus, is the description of the page going to be from the viewpoint of Islam? 9lilmonkeys ( talk ) 23:39, (UTC) Not sure what you're on about here, mate. Ravshimon ( talk ) 00:29, (UTC) Duh, whaddya talkin' about. Uhhh, Islam is da greatest, i'n't it? Lestrade ( talk ) 15:53, (UTC)Lestrade references to stars and planets discovered in Torah edit hi there, please take note that new discoveries were made that show where and how the Old Testament / Torah contains direct references to stars and astronomic cycles. There are those stars all over the torah which we can find using four different approaches: comparing dates the life spans and ages at childbirth of patriarchs to risings and settings of stars; comparing the sum of the total ages of patriarchs to known astronomical cycles;.
5:44 where as Torah is refered to moses pbuh. Tawrat of Al-kitab is the biography ayats having order of Allah 5:43 and the order of Allah is in ayats of alkitab called mother of the book. 7 he it is Who has revealed the book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the mother of the book. Please read and think this word is different from the word Torah meaning instructions/anks- farrukh38 ( talk ) 15:54, 26 December 2008 (UTC) say the hababvjhs Sorry, but where did all the footnotes go? Clicking on any of the footnote links does nothing, and there is nothing at the bottom of the article in the way of notes or citations. ( talk ) 01:13, online (UTC) Thank you for pointing that out. I have put it back. Shirulashem User tacb c b bias from the start!
In fact, a kabbalah site even states: "The 22 letters are called flame letters because they are each drawn with a flame coming out the top." ( 1 ). Please remove the incorrect sentence from the article. ( talk ) 02:15, (UTC) Bump. ( talk ) 21:29, 15 november 2008 (UTC) I have no idea who is right in this, but since that line is uncited and contentious, it can. Serendi pod ous 12:56, 16 november 2008 (UTC) Tawrat and Torah edit The tawrat and Torah are not one and same thing that is why should be written seperately. Tawrat of Quran is an attribute of Al-kitab like quran and meaning of this word is Law. This law is written in :45 And we prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes.
A, summary of the, torah
I don't know what you mean by "earlier Israelite religions". The 70 rabbis who translated the septuagint were not members of "earlier Israelite religions they were jews. The torah already had a significant place in Judaism before musee Christianity was invented, let alone Islam. Serendi pod ous 12:57, (UTC) Yes I can see you don't know what I mean. And I'm surprised you would cite the legendary letter of Aristeas concerning the septuagint that contradicts all modern research, which in any event post-dates the period I'm referring. The talk page isn't the place for a historical argument, in any event. I hope other editors will weigh.
Carneadiiz ( talk ) 13:09, (UTC) The original language in which these five books were written in was Middle paleo-hebrew, not Greek nor Latin, as these two languages did not exist at the time in which it was created; therefore, the name of that five. AurumSpiral1235813 ( talk ) 17:54, (UTC) Flame writing edit The article incorrectly states that the hebrew alphabet is called get "the flame alphabet" because of a kabbalistic idea (or maybe folk etymology?) about the torah being written in fire. The biblical Hebrew language is sometimes referred to as "the flame alphabet" because many devout Jews believe that the torah is the literal word of God written in fire. Only the k'tav ashuri / k'tivah tammah is called "flame writing and that is because of the "flare" on the top corner of each letter, which is diminished or absent in the cursive script. "Instead of the little ornaments at the upper ends of the stems, in the cursive script a more or less weak flourish of the line appears." ( Jewish Encyclopedia ).
" Carneadiiz ( talk ) 03:39, (UTC) That's pushing. Call it the torah or the pentateuch, it still is a purely jewish document written by jews for Jews. How other religions subsequently interpreted it has no bearing on how and why it was originally written. Serendi pod ous 05:21, (UTC) i agree it should primarily be presented in the way it was written. But I feel you are conflating later forms of Judaism with earlier Israelite religions.
Usage of the term "Torah" in the bible, particularly in the pentateuch is different than in Talmudic/medieval Judaism. So in a sense i agree that the article should be framed in what the histories say about ancient Israelite religion contemporary to the authorship, but stuff like the number of commandments, the terms "Chumash its writing on a ritually prepared scroll, oral tradition, midrash. Wouldn't make the cut. Those are later Jewish developments. So framing it as an ancient Israelite near Eastern document I think would result in a very different intro than framing it in Judaism as we have it today. There is quite a bit of scholarship on ancient views of the pentateuch, and that should be followed for the introduction. That is what I have in mind by generic and neutral, as that's the common source from which other views spring. Carneadiiz ( talk ) 12:44, (UTC) "earlier Israelite religions"? It's amazing to what lengths some people will go to deny the continuity of Jewish experience over 3000 years.
The jewish Roman World of Jesus
Mangoe ( talk ) 14:56, (UTC)Well next time you revisit this add me to the pentateuch camp. That's the term of choice in the scholarly and secular literature. (That's something of an understatement, i virtually never see torah, even in scholarly literature written by jews.) lined Plus, "Torah" has several meanings in Jewish parlance, as the article notes. This is not an issue i want to take up at this point, but here's comes my two cents:Reading some previous discussion of this point it fuller seems the problem is that we want 1) to have an article on the jewish "Torah" concept given how. I trust we all see the tension i think we should have one article, very similar to the one that exists, but with the title as Pentateuch and the intro framing the subject in a generic way. One (large) section would be on Jewish use and the larger "Torah" context. So in summary what I think we should 1) change the article's title, 2) dramatically thin the two enormous paragraphs in the introduction reflecting Jewish use of the pentateuch and move it to the judaism section, and 3) move the torah terminology/scroll stuff of the. The new introduction should be along the lines of ". An ancient near Eastern document written in Hebrew.
The torah is written by hand on a scroll of parchment. The person who does this is often called a "Sefer Schreiber which is Yiddish not Hebrew for "book writer" scriber writer or scribe, where "book" means the book takes about 1 year, and must be devoid of any errors, omissions, corrections or blemishes, as resume they. The torah is reproduced in book form for usage in prayer by the public. These books are always referred to as Chumash, and never as Torah. In a synagogue, the congregation uses the book form, the ministers use a torah. Historygypsy ( talk ) 21:57, (UTC) we seem to revisit this about once a month. The consensus has been that making a distinction between "Torah" and "Pentateuch" is misleading and invites sectarian misstatements. Also, it has inevitably come to the fore that the distinction between the distinction between the books and "law" as a general subject (and yes, i realize that "law" is in some ways a defective translation) is not as sharp as some people would like.
2008 (UTC) Torah is the first name, and the proper name. Pentateuch is just a greek term for the torah that is used by non-Jews. Serendi pod ous 10:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC) Absolutely correct, almost. The "five books" are called Chumash which means "five" the ch is a soft gutteral. When compiled into a single work, they are referred to as "Torah or teachings/Instructions. Actually, more correctly, it is "Sefer Torah which means book of teachings/instructions. To explain, at the time there were no books, only scrolls and tablets of stone or clay.
Top-importance on the project's importance yardage scale. This article is within the scope. Wikiproject Bible, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the. Contents, physical Scroll Contents edit, the physical object of the torah scroll only contains the five books of Moses. It does not contain a single word from the writings, prophets, talmud or Mishna. People reading the introduction may be confused on the facts that the torah is a physical document (as opposed to concept and that it only contains the five books of Moses. — preceding unsigned comment added by ( talk ) 04:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC) It seems to me to be quite arguable that "Torah" is a sectarian term, and that Pentateuch is the proper generic term for these five books. While a great deal of this article deals with the specifically jewish context of Torah, other parts of it more generally refer to the five books as books, rather than as the basis for Jewish law.
Summary of the, torah
This article is of interest to the following. Wikiprojects : This article is within the scope. Wikiproject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage. Judaism -related articles on wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. B, this article has been paper rated. B-class on the project's quality scale. Top, this article has been rated.